Top Five reasons to hate FSU: a detailed look at what makes Florida State despised by all who oppose them

by | Nov 24, 2014 | Uncategorized

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Let FSU Hate Week commence!

It’s not just a Gator thing, though. The feeling around the country is that Oregon carried out some kind of divine justice in last January’s Rose Bowl, and the college football world will forever hold a warm place in our collective hearts for the 2014 Oregon Ducks as some sort of weird guardian angel. Simply put, watching FSU get clobbered 59-20 was a memory the college football will never forget.

But no team or fan base hates FSU more than Florida, and for good reason. FSU fans have been, by and large, haughty jerks ever since the euphoria of Florida’s 37-26 win over the Noles in November of 2012 wore off. Since then, Florida has ceded its bragging rights to its in-state rival thanks to Will Muschamp’s deficiencies as a head coach and the simultaneous (and not so coinciding) success that Jimbo Fisher has brought to Tallahassee (namely a national championship and three straight ACC crowns). This sequence has led to two years of FSU fans mocking Florida’s 4-8 record in 2013, claiming to be state champions, and giddily pointing out the fact that they’ve beaten Florida twice in a row.

But while I’ve grown tired of such taunts, that’s not an adequate reason to hate FSU. There are several other, better reasons to hate the Noles. Here are the top five.

1) Football is more important than justice to FSU and the Tallahassee Police Department

The reputation of Tallahassee authorities caring more about football than justice was sealed on December 2, 2014- the day of the “student hearing” (complete transcript of the hearing attached here) regarding Jameis Winston’s alleged rape. Ignored were the multiple testimonies from the alleged victim’s witnesses and the fact that Winston’s witnesses (read: teammates), Ronald Darby and Chris Casher, refused to testify. In a real court of law, that could potentially be deemed a crime called obstruction of justice. But at FSU, that’s just called being a good teammate. And yet it pales in comparison to the level of corruption that trusted authority figures- administrators and police officers- have demonstrated.

The first red flag was Winston’s DNA found on the girl’s underwear. But all Jameis had to do was swear the sex was consensual for that bit of evidence to be rendered useless. When asked how, exactly, the girl consented, Winston said “by moaning“. Now, it’s clear Winston isn’t the world’s brightest guy- stealing crab legs and soda, shooting at squirrels with a BB gun and yelling things like this in public just to get attention is evidence of that- and so I suppose it’s possible that he might not have totally understood the question, but the fact that he said he interpreted moaning to automatically equal consent to sex should have at least set off an alarm bell in the head of Major Harding (the retired Florida Supreme Court Justice running the hearing), no? I mean, Jameis is implicitly admitting that the girl never verbally agreed, or even nodded her head, and all he’s admitting to having in terms of proof of consent is her moaning? Shouldn’t that at the very least trigger a follow up question or two?

Equally despicable is the failure to investigate the advocate of the alleged victim in the transcript that stated that her behavior was “consistent with that of someone traumatized by sexual assault”. This was a social worker at the hospital who was with the victim not long after she was allegedly raped. How did Winston counter this claim? By trying to shoot down her credibility, of course. Winston replied that the advocate’s opinions were “based on 60 hours of training” and that she was not a clinical psychologist. And while we’re ignoring what people who work at hospitals say, let’s also ignore the fact that the alleged victim was found to have clear vaginal tenderness in the aftermath of the alleged assault- which could mean nothing, but was a fact that Jameis wasn’t forced to address.

Of course, this could have all been avoided had the Tallahassee Police Department launched an actual investigation- one presumably conducted with what pass for their brains and moral compasses engaged. As we know, the TPD elected to basically not do anything at all, opting instead to allow their local team’s quarterback to prepare to lead his school to a national championship. Why boggle his mind with something as trivial as a sexual assault when he can win your hometown team a national championship, right?

Having said all of that: I completely understand that there is a legitimate possibility he’s innocent, but why am I still talking about possibilities three years after the initial complaint was filed? The alleged victim initially called the police on December 2, 2012. Here we are now, approaching December of 2015, and we know little more now than we did then despite the same red flags (advocate’s testimony, Winston’s DNA, and the girl’s vaginal tenderness) ignored by Harding popping up on the TPD’s desk first. And the TPD, with the power to investigate further, either failed to investigate completely or completely failed to investigate.

Sadly, the police’s disgraceful mishandling of the Winston case was nothing new. The New York Times launched its own investigation into the Tallahassee Police Department and uncovered several more potential crimes that the TPD simply ignored or buried. Most notable in that article I just linked is the incident involving an FSU football player beating his girlfriend as she tried to leave his apartment with her baby in her arms. The incident was reported to the sergeant (an FSU fan, as the piece notes) who merely buried the report away forever. 

Now here’s the scariest part. We know for a fact that the police botched the Jameis Winston rape allegation- they’ve grudgingly admitted as such- so is it such a stretch to believe that they’ve made more errors, quite possibly on purpose, to preserve the active roster of their city’s college football team? And in response to the widespread reaction from FSU fans to dismiss the New York Times’ piece as a “hack” job, why, exactly, would a major news publication located in New York simply fabricate a story about something that’s happening in Florida? The idea that the Tallahassee Police Department is full of people who pull hard for their local football program is certainly a more plausible one than the idea that the New York Times is willing to throw away the reputation they’ve spent 165 years building by enticing a record number of those ad clicks I mentioned earlier on one story that they made up solely for that purpose. But as we’ll get to later, that sort of logic just gets lost on many FSU fans.

2) FSU’s football program is filled with thugs

While the TPD may be ignoring a lot of the crimes that go on in Tallahassee, they can’t ignore all of them. The 29 game win streak FSU fans bragged so much about came with quite a bit of baggage. Here’s a comprehensive list of FSU player arrests since their dominance began in 2013:

-In the summer of 2013, wide receiver Greg Dent was accused of raping a girl. He was not happy with a girl (that he had known for a long time) telling him that she didn’t want to have sex. Dent subsequently left the room, returned naked and “forcibly removed her clothes” so he could force himself on her. He was arrested for sexual battery and dismissed from the team, but wound up being charged only with misdemeanor battery. What was Jimbo Fisher’s reaction to that? “I’m extremely happy that that turned out. I think Dent is an outstanding young man…” Yes, really. Though he did kick him off the team, that statement… oh man.

-I believe that James Wilder Jr. enjoys the feeling of having his hands cuffed together. Between February of 2012 and April of 2014, he was arrested four separate times. While none of the offenses were particularly violent, it’s worth a shake of the head to see the same guy get arrested four times in 26 months.

-Last spring, offensive lineman Ira Denson stole teammate Mario Pender’s credit card and subsequently used it several times, racking up $501.36 in purchases. Naturally, once he found out, Pender was pissed, and countered by stealing a pair of Denson’s shoes. How did the two young men handle it? With a shooting, of course, one that resulted in Pender’s brother being shot in the head. To his credit, Jimbo Fisher did kick Denson off the team after he was charged with being an accessory to the shooting.

-We all know by now about Jameis Winston stealing crab legs and soda, and shooting at squirrels with a BB gun. But it’s really unfortunate that the most famous instance of FSU players misbehaving is one of the most innocuous. I can’t really bring myself to hate a program because their QB stole $32.72 worth of seafood, or even shooting at squirrels. Nevertheless, stealing is against the law, and Winston broke that law.

-Last July, wide receiver Jesus Wilson stole a motor scooter on the FSU campus and paraded around with it like he’d just discovered a Ferrari in the middle of the Sahara. Unfortunately, he was even worse at driving it than he is at using common sense, and his little joyride abruptly ended in a violent crash that cost nearly $1,000 in damages. He was suspended for one game.

-This past August, FSU QB De’Andre Johnson, um, “encountered” a woman in a bar. The argument immediately turned physical, and after the woman appeared to punch him, Johnson reared back and slugged her in the face with all his might. That’s not to say she was justified in swinging first- she wasn’t- but Johnson was dumb enough to swing back and ruin whatever semblance of a football career he might have had (Jimbo Fisher had no problem kicking off his third string QB).

-FSU tailback Dalvin Cook has been on quite the legal adventure since he arrived in Tallahassee. First, he was cited in 2014 for strangling a trio of dogs by tying them tightly together with a heavy chain. Later that year, he was named as an associate in an aggravated assault. And then last month, he was the one charged with assault after striking a woman in the face several times. Now, did he actually punch that woman in the face? I dunno, it’s not like there’s a real justice system there for us to find out…

…And then, of course, there’s all the stuff the TPD lets the players get away with, and thus I can’t factually attribute to them. There was a domestic disturbance involving an FSU football player. There was a hit and run engineered by PJ Williams that resulted in the complete evisceration of another person’s car. There was the aforementioned assault allegedly carried out by Karlos Williams. And there’s more, but you get the picture.

As a footnote to both 1) and 2): don’t play the “glass house” game with me. I know Urban Meyer ran a dirty program too- a filthy one, really. But Meyer’s program being corrupt does nothing to change the fact that FSU’s program is worse.

3) #FSUTwitter is, without exaggeration, the worst group of fans in existence

Not all FSU fans are bad. I’ve met some Noles who are really good people, and I even consider some to be good friends of mine. A large portion of my family are FSU grads; they are smart, successful people with a lot of great qualities, and I know there are others out there just like them. And yes, every school has its share of bad fans, including Florida. You will not get one word of argument from me about that.

But then there’s the portion of FSU fans on twitter who claim the hashtag #FSUTwitter- without a doubt the most vile, repulsive, obnoxious, delusional and messed-up-in-the-head group of creatures to ever band together and swear allegiance to a sports team. Even some FSU fans hate them, and if you are one of them- bravo. I applaud you. Because like it or not- and I do believe #FSUTwitter was originally created with good intentions- this tweet has become the epitome of what #FSUTwitter stands for:

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With the raw intelligence of Patrick Star, the logic skills of a four year old explaining why Santa is real, and the moral compass of Somali pirates, #FSUTwitter belongs in a video that demonstrates to young kids how not to act. Their main general tactic is to attack somebody with phrases like “your gay and ugly” and then encourage fellow #FSUTwitter members to jump in with clever responses like “GOT EM,” “BRUH I CAN’T,” “SAVAGE,” and everybody’s favorite, “Just take the L fam” to help the initial #FSUTwitter “win” the argument. As if all those brilliant phrases really equates to accomplishing anything. These people possess little if any knowledge about football, opting instead to engage in en masse personal attacks against any who oppose them, and throwing “#FSUTwitter” somewhere into their tweet like some sort of deranged battle cry. In fact, if some these brave internet warriors behaved in real life the way they do behind computer screens, they’d be rightfully thrown in jail.

Predictably, anybody who stands in the way of FSU’s football team winning games gets the worst of it. How do you think this nasty group of societal misfits reacted when they found out Jameis Winston was being accused of rape? If you guessed “finding out who the accuser was and posting her name and face for all to see,” you’re right! Never mind that she might have been raped. How dare she threaten their favorite football team’s success, a crime #FSUTwitter decided to make her pay for with death threats. And how did #FSUTwitter treat the reporter who broke the story? With death threats, of course, which caused him to alert the police after he received enough of them.

Another notable misadventure of #FSUTwitter was their war with Michelle Beadle, who dared call them out for repeated acts of malice and stupidity. Instead of helping their cause with a rational collective response, they instead chose to prove her various points by personally attacking her in a wide variety of ways, the most notable of which were comparing her to Hitler and calling her the “C” word. After being laughed at some more, #FSUTwitter then chose to cry about it by creating a petition calling for ESPN to fire her. Weird, I thought it was reporters’ jobs to tell the truth.

But the most abhorrent treatment of all is saved for some of their fellow FSU fans. Last September, Jameis Winston decided to jump on a table and scream (earmuffs, kids)… “f*ck her right in the p*ssy.” Naturally, fellow FSU students tweeted about it- how could they not?- and when he got in trouble, #FSUTwitter decided to blame the twitter users for tweeting about what Jameis did rather than blame Jameis for actually doing the stupid thing that got him suspended in the first place. One particular twitter user named Katie got repeated death threats, including a chilling wish that she “die slow.” The picture linked in that initial threat to her has been deleted, since the initial tweet was deleted, but I’ll never forget it. It was a screenshot of a description of a particularly violent and disgusting form of medieval torture, meaning that was what this user wanted to do to Katie. Consider yourself warned, and click here to see for yourself at your own risk. Yikes, man. That’s ISIS-level bad. And all because she dared tweet about what Jameis Winston said.

To add to that, these particular fans operate with a sub-standard level of intelligence. They brag about how they’ve accomplished more than Florida despite only existing since 1947, as if they would have won national championships in a time when college football was dominated by northern schools. They claim that FSU has won 19 national championships across all sports even though they’ve only won 11 in reality. And they act as though the Gators aren’t really the 1996 national champions (since they beat Florida in the regular season) even though Florida clobbered them 52-20 in the national championship game.

4) Everything about their school’s mascot and traditions is racist

I’ve got to start somewhere here, so how about with that repulsive war chant that completely and utterly violates our ears? It should be banned from college football for sheer annoyance alone, yet that’s not even the biggest problem it creates. Calling a bland and tuneless “chant” the “war chant”, and then synonymizing your athletic program to it, accomplishes nothing other than reducing the various sacred traditions of Native American tribes to one letter that gets bellowed in pitches that alternate every second or so. I’m sure the majority of Native Americans appreciate being represented with a prolonged scream that sounds like a woman trying to sing while simultaneously giving birth, and the so called “tomahawk chop” that goes with it.

Speaking of that chop: I hate it for the exact same reason. Doing it to the tune of the war chant merely doubles the level of irritation, and yet like the chant, that’s not the biggest problem it causes. The chop represents the Seminole tribe- and Native Americans everywhere- with a movement of the arm that bears striking resemblance to a slow motion video of a chef cutting up a carrot.

Then there’s the mascot, Chief Osceola, which features a white male FSU student painting his face to look like, well, a chief, riding a horse to midfield and planting a flaming spear. Making things worse, there are fans who paint their faces with war paint and stick feathers in their hair. If blackface is considered to be so racist, what makes this any better? Because it’s not the entire face that gets painted?

Something tells me that the Seminole tribe doesn’t enjoy all their rituals being represented with a gesture that is ridiculously easy for people to make fun of. Actually, wait, I know for a fact that they don’t. And I’m not talking about the Florida Seminole Tribal Council, who are “OK” with it. You’re damned right they’re OK with it- they use the brand name of the FSU football team to promote their own gambling operations, make an obscene amount of money off of said gambling operations and then fail to distribute said money to their fellow Native Americans who really need it. Instead, I’m talking about the Seminoles in Oklahoma- where the overwhelming majority of Seminole Native Americans live. By “overwhelming majority”, I mean nearly 19,000 in Oklahoma to 2,000 in Florida. And the “overwhelming majority”, as defined above, doesn’t like the way FSU portrays them.

5) FSU’s success is based largely on the weak conference they play in

FSU had a 29 game winning streak going before Oregon emphatically snapped it. But Oregon is far from the only team to embarrass FSU on a big stage like that. For example, did you know FSU is 3-7 in national championship/BCS/CFP games- and one of those wins was in the Orange Bowl against a Northern Illinois team that won the lowly MAC and had no business being in a BCS Bowl? There’s a reason for that.

Let’s dissect that winning streak: 19 of the 29 wins came against ACC teams, which has to be the weakest of the nation’s so called “Power Five” conferences. Five more were against cupcakes (Nevada, Bethune Cookman, Idaho, the Citadel and NIU), two more came against Florida teams that combined for 11 wins in those two years, one was against an Oklahoma State team that finished 6-6 and one was against a Notre Dame team that completely collapsed down the stretch and lost its last five games.

That leaves exactly one win in this long streak that’s truly worth boasting about: the dramatic come from behind win over Auburn to win the final BCS Championship Game. But even that has negligible value: they had to fight for their lives to win the national championship over a team that would have finished 9-3 had it not benefitted from not one but two of the luckiest plays in college football history, and could have easily been 8-4 without the benefit of this play.

So while FSU’s 2013 title is certainly legitimate, it’s not without questions regarding how they would have performed on a week to week basis in the SEC or Big 12. They very nearly lost to what was probably the fifth best team in the SEC, and that was with a month off to prepare for it. If nothing else, it certainly raises question marks about how different their record might have been had they faced a four week stretch that included Auburn, Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina (who was good then, remember). Sledgehammering patsies on a weekly basis in the ACC provides FSU with an exponentially less difficult path to navigate to a potential championship than having to scratch and claw to survive each game in the SEC. And while FSU may very well have torn through the SEC in 2013, the fact that they celebrate an undefeated season while the rest of the country laments not getting to see them try to is frustrating.

Then there’s this year. The Noles come into this weekend’s game at 9-2; I say with full confidence that if this team played in the SEC, they’d be 7-4 at best and quite possibly in danger of missing a bowl game. They may be able to squeak out wins against Boston College, Miami, Wake Forest and Georgia Tech (…or not) but I’d pay money to see what happens if they play like that against Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Alabama and Missouri. They’d be lucky to split those games and go 3-3.

Because they’ll always be in the ultra-weak ACC, we’re forced to just accept the fact that they’ll always win a large percentage of their games, and listen to them brag about their record, winning percentage over the last however many years they feel like bragging about and the high ranking/respectable bowl game they’ll get because of that nice record. Which is annoying beyond words.

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Photo credit: Florida Gators Due to the cancellation of the Gators' spring football game, the Florida Gators Pro Day was the closest thing to live football we're going to get this offseason. Luckily for the fans- and much more importantly, themselves- several...

Who should replace Mike White at Florida? (2021 version)

Who should replace Mike White at Florida? (2021 version)

Photo credit: John E. Moore, Getty Images A year ago, after Mike White's coaching malpractice pushed me over the edge for good, I wrote about all the laundry list of candidates I would love to see Florida replace Mike White with. After his horrifying late game...

TE CJ Hawkins commits to Florida

TE CJ Hawkins commits to Florida

Image via 247Sports The Gators got off to a slow start with their 2022 recruiting class. But with the addition of CJ Hawkins, it's officially picking up steam. Hawkins, a tight end out of Tampa, FL/Berkeley Prep, committed to Florida over South Carolina. The Gators...

Athletic OT Tony Livingston commits to Florida

Athletic OT Tony Livingston commits to Florida

Image via BuckeyePlanet.com Florida picked up a major boost for its 2022 recruiting class with the addition of Tony Livingston. Livingston, a consensus four star offensive tackle from Tampa, FL/Carrolwood Day announced his decision on twitter this evening. He also had...

2022 QB Nick Evers commits to Florida

2022 QB Nick Evers commits to Florida

Image via TexAgs.com Coaches will tell you that in every recruiting class, signing a quarterback is a need. For the Gators' 2022 class, Dan Mullen just filled that need in the name of Nick Evers, who just committed with an announcement on twitter. Evers is a consensus...

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 3/2 practice

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 3/2 practice

Photo credit: Florida Gators/@GatorsFB The Gators held Day 6 of spring practice today, and as has been the case for several of the prior practices, the program decided to open it up (virtually) to the public, and streamed most of the reps live on the team's Instagram...

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 2/26 practice

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 2/26 practice

Day five of full pads. (Image via Florida Gators.) For the third time this week, the Florida Gators football team held a virtual open practice, streaming most of the day's work on Instagram live for all to see. Here are all the videos I managed to capture from Friday...

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 2/24 practice

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 2/24 practice

Jason Marshall vs. Xzavier Henderson: something we'll be seeing a lot of in practice for a very, very long time. (Photo credit: Florida Gators) For the second time this week, the Gator football program virtually opened its practice to the public on its Instagram page,...

Videos: highlights from Gator football’s 2/22 practice

Screenshot from Florida's practice today (via Florida Gators) Dan Mullen and the Florida Gator football team hit the field for practice today as usual. One thing that made today's practice different from a lot of the Gators' other practices, though, was that today's...

Kicker Adam Mihalek commits to Florida

Kicker Adam Mihalek commits to Florida

Image via Adam Mihalek The Florida Gators snuck in one last addition to their 2021 recruiting class at the last second: kicker Adam Mihalek. Mihalek, a local from Tampa, has announced his intentions to stay close to home and attend the University of Florida as a...

Four star 2022 DE Francois Nolton commits to Florida

Four star 2022 DE Francois Nolton commits to Florida

With the Gators' 2021 recruiting class all wrapped up, Dan Mullen and his staff have gone to work setting up their 2022 class. https://twitter.com/99_nolton/status/1357739221822418945?s=20 Francois Nolton, a 6'4, 225 lb. four star defensive end from Miami, has...

Gators land former LSU five star TE Arik Gilbert

Gators land former LSU five star TE Arik Gilbert

Dan Mullen remains undefeated in the NCAA transfer portal with the addition of Arik Gilbert. And now, a year after Florida lost unanimous All-American tight end Kyle Pitts to the NFL, the Gators may not miss a beat at that position. Gilbert, a former five star tight...

Florida Gators’ 2021 football schedule revealed

Florida Gators’ 2021 football schedule revealed

When the SEC first pieced together a twelve year football schedule rotation in 2014 that dictated which teams would play who from the other division, the Florida Gators knew that they'd be hosting Alabama as their cross-division opponent in 2021. But now, following...

Gators complete coaching staff with Jules Montinar

Gators complete coaching staff with Jules Montinar

UPDATE: Florida has officially announced Jules Montinar as the newest member of the Gator football staff. https://twitter.com/GatorsFB/status/1353802427313618945?s=20 (Initial story begins below.) With linebackers coach Christian Robinson presumably staying at...

Auburn DL Daquan Newkirk transfers to Florida

Auburn DL Daquan Newkirk transfers to Florida

DaQuan Newkirk is coming home. Daquan Newkirk has decided to return home (or close to it) for his final year of eligibility. And thus, Florida's shaky offseason took a step in the right direction. https://twitter.com/holdthat_2/status/1349757297782829056?s=20 Once a...

Florida LB James Houston to enter transfer portal

Florida LB James Houston to enter transfer portal

Best of luck to James Houston as he searches for a new home. James Houston IV, a junior linebacker from Fort Lauderdale, has told me that he will be entering the transfer portal. Houston was known for making a few of the bigger defensive plays of the last couple of...

Keyontae Johnson placed into medically induced coma

Keyontae Johnson placed into medically induced coma

Keyontae Johnson has been placed into a medically induced coma, according to the USA Today, who spoke with Johnson's grandfather. His grandfather, Larry DeJarnett said in a phone interview that his grandson was transported to Gainesville earlier today after receiving...

Florida vs Tennessee: Film Review – Defense

Florida’s 2020 season has overall been a successful one by most measures. The Gators are 8-1, ranked in the top ten in every major poll and are four wins away from securing the program’s fourth national title. But in order to obtain that national title, there’s a lot...

Several Gators listed as national award semifinalists

Florida's efforts on the field have been rewarded in the sense that the Gators now control their own destiny to SEC and national championships. But for several players, their efforts are being rewarded in more individual manners, too. Four Gators have been listed as...

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 31-19 win over Tennessee

Florida didn't play especially well, but did more than enough to beat Tennessee and wrap up the SEC East for the first time since 2016. What were the major takeaways from the game? Florida simply does not have a running game Tennessee came into the game with a five...

Photo Gallery from Florida’s 34-10 win over Kentucky

As we anticipate tomorrow's road matchup with Tennessee,  let’s take one more look back at last week’s game against Kentucky. Our podcast host, Dustin Smith, happens to also be a fantastic photographer. He was at the game last Saturday, and got some great photos of...

Florida RB Iverson Clement will transfer

Florida's deep stable of running backs has just gotten a little thinner. Iverson Clement, a junior tailback from Mount Holly, NJ, has decided to transfer. He departs from Florida having carried the ball twelve times for 94 yards. He nearly scored a touchdown against...

Gators make belated Thanksgiving feast out of Wildcats

Florida was missing key pieces on both sides of the ball a week ago in a sluggish 38-17 win over Vanderbilt. The Gators got them both back today, and the result was fairly similar: Florida struggled for a half against a historically inferior divisional opponent,...

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 34-10 win over Kentucky

It took awhile for Florida to get itself going, but they eventually did do exactly that and rolled away from Kentucky. What stood out in the victory? A tale of two halves Florida's offense was stuck in reverse for most of the first half, mustering a grand total of...

No. 6 Gators overcome sluggish start to run past Vandy

Florida arrived at Vanderbilt’s small stadium a mere hour and two minutes before kickoff, determined to avoid the cramped quarters in the visitors’ locker room at all costs and intent on spending as little time on the premises as they had to. Then the Gators took the...

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 38-17 win over Vanderbilt

It wasn’t pretty, but Florida fought off a tough challenge from Vanderbilt and got out of Nashville with a 38-17 win. What stuck out in the victory? The defense is still a problem. Yes, Florida played better on defense after a miserable first quarter, and sure,...

Photo Gallery from Florida’s 63-35 win over Arkansas

Before we look ahead to Vanderbilt tomorrow, let's take one more look back at last week's game against Arkansas. Our podcast host, Dustin Smith, happens to also be a fantastic photographer. He was at the game last Saturday night, and got some great photos of various...

Trask, Gators run Hogwild in blowout of Arkansas

Trask, Gators run Hogwild in blowout of Arkansas

Feleipe Franks’ dramatic return to the Swamp was the story of the day when his Arkansas Razorbacks faced off against #6 Florida in the Swamp. But it was his long-time understudy, Kyle Trask, who dominated the night. Trask continued his push for a Heisman Trophy by...

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 63-35 win over Arkansas

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 63-35 win over Arkansas

Florida earned its most lopsided win of the season over Arkansas, and former quarterback Feleipe Franks, 63-35. What stood out most along the way? Kyle Trask is now the Heisman frontrunner After several years of hyping up various quarterbacks as Heisman Trophy...

A Tribute to Feleipe Franks: I Will Remember You

A Tribute to Feleipe Franks: I Will Remember You

Hello again, Feleipe Franks. It's been about fourteen months since your Gator career ended in a particularly gruesome fashion. Tomorrow, we meet again. Only this time, your job will be to ruin Florida's season, not enhance it, and our job will be to make you...

Gators kick Georgia out of Cocktail Party

Gators kick Georgia out of Cocktail Party

Throughout Dan Mullen’s short tenure at Florida, Kirby Smart has had Mullen’s number.  And three minutes into their third meeting in Jacksonville, it looked like that would continue. But then Florida flipped the script and turned the game— and the rivalry— on its...

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 44-28 win over Georgia

Five Takeaways from Florida’s 44-28 win over Georgia

WE DID IT!!! Yes, at long last, Florida has gotten the Georgia monkey off its back and toppled the Bulldogs to take control of the SEC East. What did we learn along the way? Kyle Trask is officially a Heisman Trophy frontrunner He may not win the award, but he has to...

2021 OL Yousef Mugharbil commits to Florida

2021 OL Yousef Mugharbil commits to Florida

A day before the Gators take on Georgia in the Cocktail Party, Yousef Mugharbil kicked off their weekend the right way. Mugharbil, a consensus four star offensive lineman from Murphy, NC/Murphy HS, has committed to Florida. He also had offers from Penn State, Virginia...

Five takeaways from Florida’s 41-17 win over Missouri

Five takeaways from Florida’s 41-17 win over Missouri

Florida bounced back from a rough loss to Texas A&M three weeks ago with a statement win against Missouri. What stood out in the process? The defense isn't great, but it's getting better. Even without three starters in the secondary (and without Zachary Carter in...

For Gators, a new season begins against Missouri

For Gators, a new season begins against Missouri

Three weeks ago, Florida completed its preseason portion of the 2020 schedule with a good deal of promise, but well aware of what it had to work on. One ugly COVID outbreak and three weeks later, and the Gators begin the meat of their schedule- a seven game stretch...

2022 Safety Sam McCall commits to Florida

2022 Safety Sam McCall commits to Florida

Just as things are getting back into full swing for the Gator football team, things are heating up on the recruiting trail, too. Florida has nabbed a commitment from 2022 athlete Sam McCall, a consensus five star recruit from Lakeland, FL/Lake Gibson HS. He chose...

2021 Edge rusher Jeremiah Williams commits to Florida

2021 Edge rusher Jeremiah Williams commits to Florida

Defensive end Jeremiah Williams, a consensus four star prospect out of Birmingham, AL/Ramsay HS, has committed to Florida, giving the Gators yet another dynamic piece for their 2021 recruiting class. Signs were pointing towards Gainesville for the highly touted edge...

Florida-Missouri game postponed to October 31

Florida-Missouri game postponed to October 31

According to multiple sources close to the team, the Florida-Missouri game scheduled to take place on October 24th will now be pushed back one week, to Halloween on October 31st. In All Kinds of Weather first reported yesterday that the game was extremely likely to be...

Florida-LSU game postponed due to COVID-19 outbreak

Florida-LSU game postponed due to COVID-19 outbreak

Multiple sources have confirmed that the Florida-LSU game scheduled for this Saturday is going to be postponed. An announcement could come as early as Wednesday afternoon. The news comes less than 24 hours after an outbreak of COVID-19 within the Gators' football...

COVID-19 outbreak places Florida-LSU game in jeopardy

After just three games, the novel coronavirus that has wreaked havoc on pretty much everything in 2020 appears to have found its way into the Gator football program. And predictably, the COVID-19 outbreak has thrown up a blockade in front of the season. A few days...

Texas A&M forces Florida to address defensive issues

Texas A&M forces Florida to address defensive issues

Throughout the game on Saturday in College Station, Florida seemed to be one step ahead of Texas A&M. Until they weren't. And then it was too late to do anything about it as the Florida program trudged off the field following a familiar fate- a loss to Jimbo...

Five takeaways from Florida’s 41-38 loss to Texas A&M

Five takeaways from Florida’s 41-38 loss to Texas A&M

Florida suffered its first loss of the season against Texas A&M today, an ugly 41-38 setback that’s far more irritating than damaging— but one that exposed a great deal of Gator shortcomings. What stood out in particular? (Spoiler alert: a lot of them are...

Imperfect Gators outlast South Carolina to start 2-0

Imperfect Gators outlast South Carolina to start 2-0

The various struggles the Florida Gators have endured on defense didn’t matter too much in their first two games against Mississippi and South Carolina. They might in their next game. And they almost certainly will later in the season. Kyle Trask tossed four touchdown...

Clemson RB Demarkcus Bowman to transfer to Florida

Clemson RB Demarkcus Bowman to transfer to Florida

The Lakeland-to-Gainesville pipeline has continued, albeit via a detour. Demarkcus Bowman has chosen to transfer to Florida. Mere days after announcing his decision to enter the transfer portal, Bowman told Gators Territory of his decision. Bowman, a former five star...

Trask’s career day propels Florida past Mississippi

Trask’s career day propels Florida past Mississippi

Dan Mullen returned to the place he once called “The School Up North” in his new set of colors for the first time. And he provided that school up north with a first class education in just how lethal his new offense is. Kyle Trask went wild, completing 30 of his 42...

Five takeaways from Florida’s 51-35 win at Ole Miss

Five takeaways from Florida’s 51-35 win at Ole Miss

The Gators opened their 2020 season with a somewhat convincing 51-35 victory over Ole Miss in Oxford. In doing so, Florida knotted the all time series score against the Rebels at twelve wins apiece. Here are my five initial takeaways from the game: Kyle Trask is...

2020 Gator football position preview: secondary

2020 Gator football position preview: secondary

Our position previews of the 2020 Gator football team conclude today with a look at the defensive backfield. Can the unit colloquially known as "DBU" move forward without CJ Henderson? Previously previewing: quarterbacks | running backs | wide receivers | tight ends |...

2020 Gator football position previews: linebackers

2020 Gator football position previews: linebackers

The penultimate piece of our position preview segment takes us to the Florida linebackers- a unit that was very good in 2019, but will look a bit different in 2020. Let's get right into it. Previously previewing: quarterbacks | running backs | wide receivers | tight...

2020 Gator football position preview: defensive line

2020 Gator football position preview: defensive line

Having completed our offensive position previews, today we move to the defensive side of the ball. And as is the case everywhere in the SEC, it starts up front. Previously previewing: quarterbacks | running backs | wide receivers | tight ends | offensive line The...

2020 Gator football position preview: offensive line

2020 Gator football position preview: offensive line

Fresh off our preview of Florida's tight ends, our 2020 Gator football position preview rolls on with a look at perhaps the key to the entire team: the offensive line. Last year, was so-so a year ago in pass protection, but really let the team down in the ground game....

2020 Gator football position preview: tight ends

2020 Gator football position preview: tight ends

With kickoff just around the corner, our position by position previews of the 2020 Gator football team are about to start hitting the presses rapid-fire. Having already published our previews on Florida's quarterback, running back and wide receiver rooms, the first of...

2020 Gator football position preview: wide receivers

2020 Gator football position preview: wide receivers

Having previously broken down Florida's quarterbacks and running backs, our position preview segment moves along today with a look at Florida's receivers. It's a unit that lost four of its top playmakers from 2019 (Van Jefferson, Freddie Swain, Josh Hammond and Tyrie...

2020 Gator football position preview: running backs

2020 Gator football position preview: running backs

After a bit longer of a gap between position breakdowns than I intended, the series rolls on today with a look at Florida's running backs. What do the Gators have in stock in their RB room this year? The leader: Dameon Pierce The leading returning rusher from 2019 has...

Snapshot: the 2020 Florida-FSU chart

Snapshot: the 2020 Florida-FSU chart

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to present to you, the 2020 Florida-FSU chart. Many of you already know what I'm referring too. For those who don't, "The Chart" is an annual In All Kinds Of Weather tradition that compares the Florida Gators...

2020 Gator football position preview: quarterbacks

2020 Gator football position preview: quarterbacks

With kickoff at long last in sight, it's time to break down the 2020 Gator football roster, position by position. Who's back, who's going to start, how good are they, and so on. Man, it's great to finally be talking about that again. So with that said, let's start...

Gators learn four of ten kickoff times for 2020 season

Gators learn four of ten kickoff times for 2020 season

Three of Florida's first four games of the 2020 season carry the potential to be broilers. The Gators' season opener against Mississippi in Oxford on September 26th will kick off at noon, and air on ESPN. The following week, Florida will return home and again play in...

#GreatestGatorEver Sweet 16 bracket breakdown

#GreatestGatorEver Sweet 16 bracket breakdown

Having announced the tentative plans for the schedule of the remainder of the #GreatestGatorEver fan voting tournament (update; the tournament resumes tomorrow on twitter and Instagram stories), it's time to refresh our memories regarding the final sixteen contestants...

#GreatestGatorEver tournament schedule update

#GreatestGatorEver tournament schedule update

For those who have been keeping track of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament, the excitement level has reached yet another all time high, as it does with the completion of each round. For those who haven't, it's not too late to be introduced to the event. Here's (a very...

Gators’ 2020 football schedule unveiled

Gators’ 2020 football schedule unveiled

At long last, the Florida Gators 2020 football schedule has been released. Here it is, in full. Florida Gators 2020 football schedule Week Date Opponent 1 9/26 @ Mississippi 2 10/3 S CAROLINA 3 10/10 @ Texas A&M 4 10/17 LSU 5 10/24 MISSOURI 6 --- BYE 7 11/7...

Four key Gators sit out first fall practice

Four key Gators sit out first fall practice

For the time being, it looks as though the SEC is going to give its college football season a go in 2020. But at least for today's inaugural practice, the Florida Gators football team launched its fall season down four critical pieces. As first reported by Sports...

DT Desmond Watson commits to Florida

DT Desmond Watson commits to Florida

Florida had been suffering through a bit of a lull on the recruiting trail earlier this month, a period that was low lighted by Clinton Burton flipping his commitment from Florida to Boston College. But if the past couple of weeks didn't vault Florida out of that rut,...

Gators flip OL recruit Jake Slaughter from FSU

After a bit of a lull on the recruiting trail, Florida has suddenly picked it up over the course of the last week. Last Saturday, safety Donovan McMillon committed; less than 48 hours later, receiver Marcus Burke followed suit to rev the engine a little bit on a 2021...

Top Jacksonville WR Marcus Burke commits to Florida

Top Jacksonville WR Marcus Burke commits to Florida

The Gators' 2021 recruiting class got a boost Saturday with the addition of Donovan McMillon. Today, Dan Mullen & Co. built on that momentum with the addition of receiver Marcus Burke. https://twitter.com/CERTIFIED_MB4/status/1285296008747003904?s=20 Burke, a...

Safety Donovan McMillon commits to Florida

Safety Donovan McMillon commits to Florida

Clinton Burton out, Donovan McMillon in. McMillon, a borderline three/four star safety from McMurray, PA/Peters Township High School, has committed to the Gators. The move provides Florida fans with a bit of relief following the decommitment of fellow defensive back...

#GreatestGatorEver tournament set to heat up

#GreatestGatorEver tournament set to heat up

Welcome to the part of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament where things really start to get interesting. For those who are just catching wind of the tournament, a quick explanation of how it works. Created with the goal of deciding the greatest Florida Gator athlete of...

Gators announce six new positive COVID tests within football program

UF confirms 11 positive COVID-19 cases since April

The University of Florida has acknowledged that eleven different positive tests for COVID-19 have taken place since April. The news comes a week and a half after the announcement that no returning Gator football player had tested positive. From Florida senior...

2021 CB Jordan Young commits to Florida

2021 CB Jordan Young commits to Florida

It may be one of the slowest times for sports in recent memory, but the inverse has been the case in the world of Gator football recruiting. 2021 cornerback Jordan Young (Tampa, FL/Gaither) has committed to Florida. A consensus three star prospect with offers from...

Kamar Wilcoxson re-commits to Florida for a third time

Kamar Wilcoxson re-commits to Florida for a third time

Kamar Wilcoxson is back on the Gators' commitment list- and he says this time, it's for good. https://twitter.com/KamarWilcoxson4/status/1274100941369806850?s=20 I think at this point, most Gator fans are familiar with who he is, and if you're not, I'll explain why I...

Safety Dakota Mitchell commits to Florida

Safety Dakota Mitchell commits to Florida

It probably got lost in the news of yesterday’s news that the Florida band will stop cueing up the “Gator bait” chant due to the term’s racist history, but while Florida football lost a ritual, it gained a commit. Safety Dakota Mitchell (Winter Park, FL/Winter Park)...

Gator baseball pitcher Tommy Mace to return in 2021

Gator baseball pitcher Tommy Mace to return in 2021

Tommy Mace has just pulled perhaps the biggest offseason surprise in the world of Florida Gator athletics. Mace, the ace of the Gator baseball pitching staff, has decided to return to Gainesville for another season after going undrafted in the MLB Draft. Per...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 15 Regional

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 15 Regional

The sixteenth and final Regional of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament gets underway later tonight. Thus, our Regional previews conclude with a look at the 15 Regional: The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.) (1)...

Lorenzo Lingard granted immediate eligibility for Florida

Lorenzo Lingard granted immediate eligibility for Florida

Happy birthday, Lorenzo Lingard. Florida's newest running back addition has announced on twitter that his waiver to be able to play in 2020 has been granted: https://twitter.com/d1champ99/status/1266464118950723584?s=20 Florida's running back room wasn't bad to begin...

#GreatestGatorEver tournament set to heat up

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 2

The penultimate Regional of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament is just about set to get underway. As is customary by now, let's acquaint ourselves with the sixteen player field a little more first. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 10 Regional

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 10 Regional

Round one of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament is drawing to a close. Today, we take a look at the third-to-last of the sixteen Regional brackets to be played: the 10 Regional. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.)...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 7 Regional

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: 7 Regional

We are officially three quarters of the way through of the first round of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament. Tomorrow morning, we begin the first round of the fourth quarter of the bracket- the 7 Regional. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order...

Class of 2021 RB/WR Charles Montgomery commits to Florida

Class of 2021 RB/WR Charles Montgomery commits to Florida

Charles Montgomery will be suiting up in orange and blue on Saturdays. On an instagram live feed, Montgomery announced that he was choosing Florida over Maryland. A consensus four star prospect out of Seffner, FL/Armwood, Montgomery also had offers from Alabama,...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 14

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 14

Time to complete the upper right hand corner of the #GreatestGatorEver bracket with the 14 Regional. Y'all know the drill by now; let's get to it. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.) (1) Kelly Barnhill (softball,...

Florida unveils plan to bring athletes back to campus

Florida unveils plan to bring athletes back to campus

Photo credit: University of Florida COVID-19 has pretty much shut down college athletics since it made its way over to the United States a couple of months ago. Now, the first steps are being taken to see their resumption. Earlier today, SEC school presidents have...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 3

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 3

Up next in our #GreatestGatorEver tournament is the 3 Regional. Before voting gets underway, let's take a closer look at the field. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.) (1) Al Horford (basketball, C/F-...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 11

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 11

Eight Regionals down, one underway, and seven more to go in Round One of our #GreatestGatorEver tournament. Next up is the 11 Regional. The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.) (1) Jack Youngblood (football, DE/DT/K-...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 6

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 6

We're halfway through the opening round of our summer long #GreatestGatorEver tournament. Now, we shift to the right side of the bracket, and start at the top with the 6 Regional, which gets underway tomorrow morning. The bracket Regional participants (Players are...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 12

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 12

The eighth and final Regional on the left half of the 256 player #GreatestGatorEver tournament is set to get started tonight. Another way of putting that: after tonight's 12 Regional voting, we will officially be halfway done with the opening round of this summer long...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 5

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 5

Our #GreatestGatorEver tournament rolls on today with Round one of the 5 Regional. As was the case for the previous Regionals and will be for all ensuing Regionals, let's take this opportunity to refresh our memories regarding what, exactly, the sixteen players in...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 13

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 13

With the 4 Regional of the #GreatestGatorEver tournament currently winding down, it's time to preview the Regional it's paired with in the Sweet 16: Regional #13. The 13 Regional bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.)...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 4

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 4

Our #GreatestGatorEver bracket is set to continue tomorrow with the opening round of the 4 Regional. Let's get to know that 4 Regional: The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they appear on the bracket.) (1) Emmitt Smith (football, RB-...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 9

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 9

Our #GreatestGatorEver bracket is set to continue later today with the opening round of the 9 Regional. With voting in the 8 Regional closing soon, let's familiarize ourselves with said 9 Regional: The bracket Regional participants (Players are listed in order they...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 8

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 8

Our #GreatestGatorEver tournament is off and running. Voting for the opening round of the 1 Regional has been completed; the 16 Regional is underway and will wrap up this afternoon. Shortly after its conclusion, the 8 Regional will get underway. So, let's get to know...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 16

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 16

Yesterday, voting began in our #GreatestGatorEver bracket in the 1 Regional. Today, voting will continue with the 16 Regional, but before the polls open, let's preview the field and refresh our memories on the players' accomplishments. The bracket Regional...

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 1

#GreatestGatorEver bracket breakdown: Regional 1

Voting for the #GreatestGatorEver bracket begins this afternoon. In the name of eliminating potential recentism in the voting, I thought I'd set the stage by previewing each Regional before the voting gets underway. Today, we'll take a look at Regional 1, which of...

2021 guard Kowacie Reeves commits to Florida

2021 guard Kowacie Reeves commits to Florida

Mike White's 2021 recruiting class is off to a great start. Kowacie Reeves (Macon, GA) has committed to Florida. Reeves, a highly sought after four star, also earned offers from North Carolina, Texas, Auburn, Georgia and Seton Hall, among others. This commitment might...

Introducing the Greatest Gator Ever bracket

Introducing the Greatest Gator Ever bracket

Part of what has helped fans make it through a long, frustrating quarantine is the abundance of fan polls on social media. In particular, 64-team, March Madness themed brackets that allow fans to vote on the winner of each matchup in each round have captured a lot of...

Michigan F Colin Castleton transferring to Florida

Michigan F Colin Castleton transferring to Florida

Colin Castleton is coming home, and Florida is adding some more frontcourt depth for the future- potentially even next season. Castleton, who spent the last two seasons at Michigan, will be transferring closer to home and joining Mike White's Gator basketball squad....

Recapping the Gators’ weekend in the 2020 NFL Draft

Recapping the Gators’ weekend in the 2020 NFL Draft

The 2020 NFL Draft has just concluded, and once again, the Florida Gators were very well represented. Below is a list of all the selections from Florida. Click on the player names for further analysis on what they bring to their new teams. Florida Gators in the 2020...

How Dan Mullen fixed a broken Gator football program

How Dan Mullen fixed a broken Gator football program

What was a fractured program less than 30 months ago needed a hero to put it back together. In Dan Mullen, Florida found that hero. This is the story of the toxic culture he walked into, how he went to work taking it apart, and how he's replaced that toxic culture...

Tebow, Spikes, James inducted into UF Hall of Fame

Tebow, Spikes, James inducted into UF Hall of Fame

Three members of the Florida Gators' 2008 football team- universally regarded as one of the best in college football history- are finally getting the ultimate recognition they deserve- spots in the UF Hall of Fame. Explosive kick/return man Brandon James posted a...

Scottie Lewis to return for sophomore year

Scottie Lewis to return for sophomore year

Florida’s basketball team got a sort-of-but-not-really-surprising boost today, as shooting guard Scottie Lewis announced that he will be coming back for his sophomore season. Lewis, a ridiculously athletic kid from southern New Jersey, arrived in Gainesville last fall...

The “Kyle Trask Emory Jones” debate: why not both?

The “Kyle Trask Emory Jones” debate: why not both?

The "Kyle Trask Emory Jones" debate is in full swing. Yes, thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic that has, among other things, lengthened college sports fans' offseason, the fanbase-wide argument regarding who should be the starter at the most important position of...

Coronavirus abruptly ends 2019-20 NCAA athletic season

Coronavirus abruptly ends 2019-20 NCAA athletic season

Photo credit: Jamie Squire/Getty Images UPDATE 5:10pm: although it feels wholly logical to assume that college baseball and softball are over for 2020, the language in the two released statements- from the SEC and NCAA, and which you can read below- left one pair of...

TE Nick Elksnis commits to Florida

TE Nick Elksnis commits to Florida

Tight end Nick Elksnis (Jacksonville, FL/Episcopal) has announced his decision to be a Gator, thus netting Florida its first commitment of its Junior Day weekend. In doing so, Elksnis effectively flips from Penn State, from which he decommitted last week....

2020 Florida Gators’ Junior Day visitors list

2020 Florida Gators’ Junior Day visitors list

The Gators' second Junior Day event in Gainesville is upon us, and it's important to keep an eye on because more often than not, Florida uses it to add members to its list of commits. This time around, the chances of the Gators doing so are increased appreciably-...

Four star TE Gage Wilcox commits to Florida

Four star TE Gage Wilcox commits to Florida

Congratulations to Gage Wilcox. You, sir, have just become the first commit for Tim Brewster. Wilcox, a four star tight end from Tampa's Jefferson High School in the Class of 2021, committed on an Instagram Live video, as captured by twitter user @CurtisK421....

Florida takes step forward by throttling LSU

Florida takes step forward by throttling LSU

Photo credit: Florida Gators Maybe this is another mirage, the latest peak in a dizzying array of sine waves for Mike White’s Gator basketball team. Or maybe, after we all erroneously thought this team had turned the corner several times before, this is the game that...